29 of 29 - Revathi

27.                 Then why astrology for beginning any event, function or process?

Answer: A job well begun is job half done.  If the influential objects are going to be in beneficial positions, the job “takes off” like a rocket.  If the influential objects are not so, then it may have problems. 

We should also keep in mind, that there is no guarantee of “high, higher and highest” achievements.  There will be ups and downs.  By starting at good time, we are setting a positive frame of mind for all & positive environment for increased probability of success.

VRVD

(29 of 29 - Revathi)

28 of 29 - Utthirattadi (Uttara Badrapada)

26.                 Does progeny predictions come out correct?

Answer: The progeny predictions depend on the combined horoscopes of the parents.  Hence, early predictions before marriage may have to be modified with the combined view of the spouse who enters the house.

VRVD

(28 of 29 - Utthirattadi - Uttara Badrapada)

27 of 29 - Poorattaadhi (Purva Bhadrapada)

25.                 With so many caveats, is it worth matching horoscopes?

Answer: There is no other system of prediction, which is scientifically based on “effects of the influential objects” (big heavy celestial objects’ effect, just like gravity) & “effects of people around you” (marriage, brings a strong force close to you, which modifies the effects of own horoscope). 

Yes, it is worth checking horoscopes for the purpose of mitigating big ill-effects by horoscopes that are magnified (something like resonance of same effects at same time).

VRVD
(27 of 29 - Poorattaadhi / Purva Bhadrapada)

26 of 29 - Sathayam (Shatabisha)

24.    Then why is not every matched married life happy?

Answer:    Many caveats here – (a) Happiness differs from person to person – one may want many children, another may want more money, a third may want powerful position in job, another may want a powerful position in society, etc.

(b) Birth times may not have been accurately noted (see earlier answers where great people have said that don’t let horoscope “dictate” life)

(c) Some half-baked astrologers being bad apples and

(d) Human nature of astrologer (as described at earlier point of this q & a).

and many more have been discussed in previous posts...

VRVD
(26 of 29 - Sathayam / Shatabisha)

25 of 29 - Avittam (Shravishta)

23.                 Will that married life be happy?

Answer: Every marriage, every life is full of ups and downs.  If the horoscopes of the two people are complementary, then they are likely to balance out the negative effects in one with the strength in the other.  If the horoscopes have similar ups & downs, the effect may be magnified and lead to severe problems.  Hence, the matching of horoscopes is to help that the two together have a better life.

VRVD

(25 of 29 - Avittam / Shravishta)

24 of 29 - Tiruvonam (Shravana)

22.                 Should we use Astrology for matching horoscopes?  How does it matter?

Answer: The idea for checking horoscope is to see if there are drastic negative effects, like early death, health disorders, scope for progeny, etc.  This is to just try to ensure that the spouse together with the son/daughter of the person seeing the horoscope will have a long married life.

VRVD
(24 of 29 - Tiruvonam / Shravana)

23 of 29 - Utthiradam (Uttara Ashada)

21.                 In that case, when does the effect of the celestial objects start for a human being?

Answer: For our calculations, we say that it is at birth.  When the child comes out of the womb, it starts to directly get affected by changing temperatures, heat, rain, cold, bacteria, virus, etc!  Hence, then on, it has become independent & has to be reactive to the environment, including the (a) gravity, light & heat of sun, (b) gravity, light of moon, (c) gravity of the bigger planets and (d) azimuth position of moon with respect to the place (Rahu and Ketu), etc.

In fact, the “protective” shield of parents is said to be there for a longer duration.  Some astrologers say up to 27 years the negative effects are protected – that is, for example, the first 7 ½ year “Saturn” effect is supposed to be less due to this protection (heresay only please - don't quote me).  The true effects are expected to be in the second cycle when Saturn is in the same zodiac as the birth zodiac! 

Hence, the effects are not simple as x is here, y is there – so this is good, or that is bad. All factors have to be taken into account, which comes only from experienced astrologers who have learnt all the facets of Astrology.

VRVD

(23 of 29 - Uthiradam / Uttara Ashada)

22 of 29 - Pooradam (Purva Ashada)

20.                 Since the time a baby is conceived there are events happening.  Why are they not taken into account upto time of birth?

Answer: This is a good point to think about.  When the baby is tiny, the items that affect the baby the most are the food, chemicals that are around it.  Hence, we have the view that the mother should have good thoughts & good food.  If the mother has tension / depression during pregnancy, then baby is going to get some chemicals that are going to give a different effect during those growth stages.  Now, that is why the “mother’s” horoscope “affects the child”!  If the mother is going through tough period in pregnancy, it does show in the growth, development, genes, organs and limbs of the child.

Then why is not the “sun” and “moon” at time of conceiving not considered.  The effects of the sun and moon are less compared to the two huge bodies within which the two parts join to get conceived.  The mother’s womb protects the child from sun, rain, cloud, heat, cold, bacteria, virus, whatever!  Hence there is no change to affect it, in my opinion!

VRVD
(22 of 29 - Pooradam / Purva Ashada)

21 of 29 - Moolam

19.                 Are you again trying to twist words to favour your arguments?

Answer: This is not an attempt to hide or let astrologers hide behind the “words” – but people have to objectively analyze “science”.  Whenever science includes “itself” the problem starts for itself!  Since “astrology” can be used to predict & change the “future” such predictions have to include the “possibility” that such a reading itself is included in the end results predicted!

Yes, I don’t have an answer as of now, but hope rest of the questions help us arrive at a good approximation to the reality of Astrology as Science!

VRVD

(21 of 29 - Moolam)

20 of 29 - Kettai (Jyesta)

18.                 Can we control destiny just by birth date & time – by Caesarean section at particular time?

Answer: This is difficult to answer.  I will try to give the generalities and hope everyone can work it out from these points.

First we are already a small individual in the magnitude of universe, whose “specific events” cannot be predicted (see uncertainty principle).  If we can predict that, then world becomes “deterministic” – no free will!

Second fact is that any “self-referencing” system has a problem (see Godel’s theorem or related points).  The question is, if astrology is a valid system which is fairly accurate, then can it include the fact that astrology will be used to “change the happenings” based on a study of astrology. 

Then, if for a moment a “blind spot” is created in the astrologer, he makes wrong calculations / predictions, which leads to a different outcome – which may have been the “correct destiny” (actual destiny of the child)! This is later confirmed by a different astrologer on reworking the correct horoscope.

It is also possible that one person is told, due to astrology, that he is expecting a certain problem, which makes the person plan well accordingly.  The person reduces / avoids the problem.  Now, this could be construed as a failure of astrology itself.  It is also possible that other aspects point to a longevity in that activity – which in itself says that “finally successfully tackling."

Another usual occurrence is that the person worries about the problem, works hard and solves it – hence the worries & headaches were the negative & not the “end result”.

VRVD

(20 of 29 - Kettai / Jyesta)

19 of 29 - Anusham (Anuradha)

17.                 Is there any other possibility for wrong predictions?

Answer: There are many along the lines of “human angle”.  Let us move on to other possibilities, like science’s limitations!  As mentioned before, science itself uses approximations.  Science itself keeps changing as and when we see observations different from “known system”!

Over and above the scientific progress, there is the proven Godel’s theorem.  In any complete system there will be statements that cannot be proven true or false!  Hence, even if we were to find “a system” that is accurate, some aspect of the system will not be provable one way or other!

VRVD

(19 of 29 - Anusham / Anuradha)

18 of 29 - Visakam

Here is a long one on the human aspect...

16.                 Then what is the reason for wrong prediction from reasonably ‘good’ astrologers?

Answer: There are many aspects to look at. One aspect of astrologer is that he is also human, which means that there are possibilities of mistakes.  For example, let us say the astrologer’s father-in-law is coming to town and astrologer has to pick him up in 30 minutes (father-in-law is bringing 40 gram gold necklace for the astrologer’s daughter).  The appointments are running late & you enter.  The mind is now a “little hurried”.  A small detail is overlooked in the hurry – don’t we all make small mistakes.

8x8 is 16, yes, I reviewed it, and again at end of the exam also – totally 3 times! When the paper comes back we bang our head & know that during the exam “our mind” was elsewhere and kept calculating 8x8 was 16!  It happens to astrolgers too!  We can call this a “temporary blind spot”!  In thamizh we say “kannai maraichudum”! (It is also used in context that the truth is shown in chart, but temporarily the astrologer misses it - like car's blind spot in rear view mirror)

If we look at even great people, they make blunders.  Experts in sports fail in some crucial situations!  How?  Sometimes “over confidence” or even “arrogance”, sometimes called EGO, takes more control than the “reasoning” leading the individual away from the “reality” or “truth”.  This leads to errors / mistakes.  This leads to the downfall of a specific event or even a series of steps down leading to a permanent fall from grace.  The same “blind spot” due to ANY number of reasons can happen to astrologers as well!

Second aspect is that astrologer is also human in that he/she “holds on” to earlier words (Jalpa vada - I said so, and hence I will hold on to it for ever)!  For example, if you visit an astrologer and he says be careful in October.  When you visit in November, he will try to “project” (from memory) that October “would have been” bad!  Astrologer already knows what has been said earlier!  So, astrologer is holding on to same line of thinking – instead of looking afresh (in some cases intentionally hides the fact that he calculated 8x8 as 16, maybe)!

Astrologer also by now knows more about what is happening in your life (office, parents, spouse, children) – and this influences predictions.  So, have to guard against that aspect of “human touch” of attachment to clients – trying to “go along” with past predictions OR known flow of your own life!

This is not “escapism” – it is just “explanation” after the fact.  It is NOT an excuse for the astrologer – it is an explanation of events that arises due to the human nature of the astrologer!

VRVD
(18 of 29 - Visakam)

17 of 29 - Swathi

15.                 Some astrologers are able to specify your past, but routinely give wrong predictions. How is that?

Answer:  Astrology can be used to plan for “good beginnings”, including time of marriage, time of starting a venture, time & direction of change in life, etc. 

At the same time, most people go to an astrologer when there is a problem / difficulty in their life.  They would like a “quick fix” to their problems.  This is being taken advantage of by some bad apples.  There are half-baked astrologers, who have a knack of finding your difficulty in either their sweet talking or by just reading non-verbal signs (what you dress, who you go with when meeting astrologer, your face which is the window to your mind), etc. 

They usually come up with “all-encompassing” sweeping statements like “you are now going through a rough period”!  If you fall for it, then “Astrology” cannot be blamed – it is both “half-baked astrologer” and the individual who has gone for guidance who are to be blamed! Pariharams are prescribed, certain good periods in future are prescribed, fees paid, everyone somehow is satisfied for the time-being.... Isn't it so?

VRVD
(17 of 29 - Swathi)

16 of 29 - Chiththirai (Chitra)

Now let us come to the "human" element of Astrology.

14.                 Doctor / Nurse notes down a wrong time – does that not make it Astrology totally wrong?

Answer: Yes, if the time is noted incorrectly, then the “paper horoscope” is wrong.  The margin of tolerance in Navamsa chart is 4 minutes, I think (experts can contribute here).  But the “actual” horoscope (your destiny) cannot be wrong!  Hence, whatever “we think is right from the noted horoscope” is now wrong.  That does not mean the event, which is unknown, is not going to happen.

The predictions based on the wrong horoscope will be incorrect.  That is why great leaders say "do not be bogged down by horoscopes", let it not become "horror-scopes".  For example, if the horoscope says you will be a crorepati & you put feet on table and expect the money to drop into your account, it may not – why?  Because, it is possible that the time noted is wrong – and hence you have wasted time.  So, do not take the prediction literally and face disaster. 

In fact, it is quite possible that the horoscope says that you will while-away a lot of time, but the “wrong” horoscope guided you into doing the thing that you were destined for. In similar vein, do not foresee an accident during a “bad” period & live your life in worry!  It is possible that the horoscope is wrong due to wrong time noted in it – and you may not have that accident at all, but end up wasting lot of time.  That is the message from learned people. But it is not against astrology / horoscopes.

VRVD

(16 of 29 - Chiththirai / Chitra)

15 of 29 - Hastham

13.                 So, is there a complete theory?

Answer: Yes, scientists are looking for a “grand unifiend theory” (that they are still searching for).  The issue is that such a thing is in contrast to Godel’s theorem.  Godel’s theorem has been proven that in “any complete” system, there will be “statements” that “cannot” be found to be either true or false!  This theorem is proven, especially when there is “self-reference” (observer being part of the system). 

For example, the statement “Patel, the Indian, says that all Indians are liars”!  This is neither true nor false – if it is true, then him being an Indian is also a liar – hence this statement is false, which leads to the fact that Indians tell the truth.  A paradoxical statement can be found in any system.

With such a proof of “incompleteness” of a complete system, there cannot be a scientific system that can define everything / predict everything.  We have to live with approximations in science too & definitely with Astrology too!

VRVD

(15 of 29 - Hastham)

PS: Brahmam Okatae, Dwaitamum Sukham / Adwaitamum Sukham, Aham Brahmasmi are closer to truth than science... Well, that is just a personal view... inserted here without any rhyme or reason except sudden whim...

14 of 29 - Uthiram (Uttara Palguni)

12.                 How come there are so many scientists who don’t believe in astrology (and even God)?

Answer: History has been replete with scientists who have agreed in their deathbed that there are unknowns & that their “high-headed” arguments are all incomplete.  There is an external “unexplained” influence that science is not able to explain, they agree!  And this perfectly fits into both science’s theory of uncertainty principle & the fact that everything is approximation, including Astrology. Everything is extrapolations and interpolations based on observed facts & figures.

VRVD

(14 of 29 - Uthiram / Uttara Palguni)

13 of 29 - Pooram (Purva Palguni)

11.                 The uncertainty principle is in the order of 10^-34.  That is very small.  Surely then Astrology must be able to predict better if it is considered a science.

Answer: The size of man in the universe must be then measured with respect to the size of universe itself. The Milky way galaxy is approximately 1 x 10²¹ metres.  Man is 2 metres (let us say).  The diameter of “observable” universe is about 8.8 x 10²⁶ metres.  This does not take into account the “unknown”!  So, we are approaching the situation where we are like 1 “error unit” in the universe in magnitude comparison for Uncertainty principle.

So, our astrological predictions for a single individual will have errors to a certain extent – that is we cannot say whether a person will have an accident here, or there or further after!  If we can predict that, then there could be some other error (say accident by nature, or by human or by vehicle or by own carelessness).

The order of uncertainty principle seems to be quite applicable to Astrology too and affects predictions in some scenarios.

VRVD

(13 of 29 - Pooram / Purva Palguni)

12 of 29 - Makham

10.                 So, you agree that Astrology is a prediction & not accurate?

Answer: Yes, it is not difficult to agree that.  Let us look at science. Newton’s theories were thought to be perfect, until they found some problems in “predictions”.  Later Einstein came up with “Theory of Relativitiy” that seems to have better predictions (still it is not 100% accurate – there are some gaps and scientists are trying to find a better approximation)!  Hence, science is for predictions as well! If scientific theories are not able to predict behaviours they are dropped. And still there is no Grand Unified Theory that people are searching for...

With the Schroedinger’s wave equations, “probability” functions are used & they are able to predict only the simplest of atoms – Hydrogen.  Probably Helium atom has been modeled too, but nothing more complex than that, leave alone molecules and then groups of them, then moles of them (6.023 x 10 power 23), etc.!  That is science’s accuracy for you.

Astrology's prediction is closest you can get for the future and to even read the past by someone who is not aware of the events. We will get to other points related to accuracy in later questions.

VRVD

(12 of 29 - Makham)

11 of 29 - Aayilyam (Ashlesha)

9.                You say science is an approximation – how can that be? Isn't it blashphemous?

Answer: People who have studied “modern physics”, “Schroedinger’s wave equation” and “Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle” will agree that if we go into minute details of any item, we have only “probability” and not “certainty”!  The uncertainty principle states that we cannot have the details of position & velocity accurate beyond a limit – one or the other will be having bigger error in value, if the other is closer in accuracy!

In schools, we first learn the Rutherford atomic model – then it is also taught that this theory is wrong. Then we learn Bohr’s atomic model & later find that is also wrong.  Now we have “Schroedinger’s wave equations”.  By now, we have already learnt from our mistakes and don't take things for certainty.  We have started using “probability” functions, instead of exact equations, in Schroedinger's wave equations, Psi functions, etc!  We have fine-tuned our science based on observations.

That is all – science is as good as Astrology (or as bad; depending on how you want to see it).

VRVD

(11 of 29 - Aayilyam / Ashlesha)

10 of 29 - Poosam (Pusya)

8.                 Is “Astrology” a science?

Answer: Yes, “astrology” is a science in the hands of the expert / master astrologer.  At the same time, in the hands of a half-baked practitioner, there can be incorrect calculations / predictions.

A knife is a useful instrument in the kitchen, but if you are not careful it can cut your own hands.  An expert will be able to use Astrology very efficiently and at the same time correctly.  If an amateur tries to handle it at same speed there can be mistakes and problems.

Please also note that “Science” itself is approximation based on our observations! All through life of science the equations have been "fit" to the data. Not much has been derived from "first principles". What is the first principle?

Hence, Astrology is a science and fits within parameters of how science is and has been.

VRVD

(10 of 29 - Poosam / Pusya)